tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6856782335366504160.post4990494752336361760..comments2023-03-25T08:43:41.087-05:00Comments on Due Process, Natural Justice, and the University of Winnipeg: About Me and MoonfaceMarty Greenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17624084719249673373noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6856782335366504160.post-76783969475671439532013-08-24T12:44:34.602-05:002013-08-24T12:44:34.602-05:00For me, personally? Seeing the way you react to co...For me, personally? Seeing the way you react to conflict - like this - states more than enough about your suitability. In teaching, you're going to run into differences of opinion and ideology all the time; not just between students, between yourself and your students, or between your students and other teachers, but between yourself and other teachers, and between the teachers and the administration. If you can't be willing to see things from another perspective (though not necessarily adopting that perspective as your own), you'd find it untenable, at least based on how you've carried yourself in class and on this blog. The incidents you list, in and of themselves, perhaps raise an eyebrow, but for me, it's in how you've responded to the allegations - by going up in arms. But I've said my piece in that regard in the past, haven't I?<br /><br />As for "Moonface" (at some point, we really need to agree to stop calling him that...), according to the response he just sent me in regards to prompting him for more based on your response, he considers the response to your questions to the ESL interpreter, and to your questions/comments in class (the classes he shared, at least), to be exaggerated. His contention is that there had to have been a less drastic way to address any concerns that instructors or other students would have had, as, and I quote, "[I] didn't have those concerns with him, myself. So I can't quite understand exactly where these people are coming from."<br /><br />In light of that, "Moonface" states "No, I don't think his behavior, from what I saw, justified being withdrawn from the program, either. I don't see an issue with being vocal about your opinion, as long as it isn't malicious... and I never really saw his as that."<br /><br />Though I should point out that he never spoke to the interpreter and was not aware of a girl being made to cry in class. Still, he's sticking by his opinion. I suppose I cannot fault him on that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6856782335366504160.post-60271390969222889352013-08-24T12:27:34.976-05:002013-08-24T12:27:34.976-05:00No, we're not talking about the way they kicke...No, we're not talking about the way they kicked me out of the practicum. I'm talking about the hundred and one character flaws you've identified from seeing me in class, and which you have stated again and again make me unsuitable to be a teacher. I'm talking about the numerous incidents which you witnessed yourself and for which I was written up, which you have read about in this blog, which the University used to justify removing me under its non-academic misconduct policy.<br /><br />You must have been there when I was rude and disrespectful to the professors; when I was disruptive; when I insulted and riduculed the ESL interpreter; and when I made a girl cry...these are the things I was accused of doing in the classes we shared together. Why then do you justify my expulsion based on things reported about me in Gordon Bell, when you admit you have no way of knowing if they are true or not?<br /><br />What did you ACTUALLY SEE ME DO that justified getting me kicked out of the program?<br /><br />Marty Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17624084719249673373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6856782335366504160.post-48520490355743365242013-08-24T12:20:03.291-05:002013-08-24T12:20:03.291-05:00I don't think there is any way for him to know...I don't think there is any way for him to know what happened at Gordon Bell, either.<br /><br />However, on the matter of you being kicked out, "Moonface" states that he does not believe you should have been removed from the program so hastily, without fair attention to all of the steps outlined in the Practicum Handbook. More directly quoted: "I didn't think, in fairness, they could (or should?) dispense with that kind of ruling so quickly... not with the steps in place in the handbook."<br /><br />I suppose that makes one of us...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6856782335366504160.post-4320234503746005242013-08-24T12:00:43.653-05:002013-08-24T12:00:43.653-05:00Since you just spoke with Moonface the other day, ...Since you just spoke with Moonface the other day, I'm wondering if he agrees with you that I deserved to get kicked out of the Education program?Marty Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17624084719249673373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6856782335366504160.post-34380502840036626272013-08-24T11:27:43.038-05:002013-08-24T11:27:43.038-05:00From what I saw and recall, he still did what was ...From what I saw and recall, he still did what was asked of him in the various papers and projects, but I'm not sure that equates to him being the obsequious tool you seem to be making him out to be. Had you remained in the program, I think you would have learned that the stance of the cohort often ended up being something to the tune of "we may not agree with this; we may not see the point of this; let's get this over and done with so that we can focus on teaching". What you almost *never* heard was "these instructors have all the answers; I think if we follow their lead, we'll all be good!" At the end of the day, the goal for much of the class was to get the degree, certify, and be able to teach. Going along with the assignments and discussions doesn't necessarily indicate how one will acquit themselves as a teacher. Few teachers I have met actively pursue teaching practices that fit the mold of theory and construct, in fact. And yet, the professors still present their views all the same. Have you considered that, perhaps, at least some of these students are waiting for their own practice before they try going off the beaten path? If you had remained in the cohort longer, I think the answer would have been a lot more clear to you.<br /><br />Hasn't this been the problem from the very beginning, Marty? You seem to make up your mind about a person, whether or not you truly understand them, and fixate upon that opinion of them. You then form an opinion, based on that opinion, of how that person views you, and you look for confirmation in minute actions that don't correlate to the person's actual opinion of you. "Moonface" first responded to your take on him by saying "he couldn't be farther from the truth". But, I suppose, you'll simply refute that by saying "of course he'd say that - anything to make himself look better". Additionally, I also suppose you've never, in this blog, done yourself the same service.<br /><br />I digress.<br /><br />What it boils down to, essentially, is this: you cannot make any changes as a teacher if you are never certified to teach. Looking at the issue realistically, who is more likely to end up being certified by the province - one who "jumps through the hoops", as it were, or one who refuses to go through the process? As a corollary to that, is it not possible, at all, for people to go through the process, obtain the product, and then reveal, for lack of a better term, their "true colours"?<br /><br />Or are you going to persist in your belief that a person's qualities are immutable, and that the way they react in classroom discussions is the ideal indicator of their teaching philosophy. If that is the case, then I suppose you've made up your mind about "Moonface" (and, to an extent, the rest of us), and nothing will change that.<br /><br />I encourage you to consider, though, that you had very little contact with the cohort following the acquisition of appreciable practicum experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6856782335366504160.post-40704926411921949102013-08-24T11:27:22.105-05:002013-08-24T11:27:22.105-05:00Spoke to "Moonface" about this anecdote....Spoke to "Moonface" about this anecdote. To be honest, aside from remembering the exercise, itself, neither of us remember him posturing his responses against you. While he does remember his group finding a large number of "put-downs" in the comic, he says that he, himself, only acted as the "recorder" in the group, and that much of the semantic sleuthing was done by the rest of the group members.<br /><br />Moreover, though neither of us remember him vehemently dismissing a point at the end of class (had you taken the time to actually get to know Moonface, you'd realize that he's typically one of the most quiet ones in the class. "Participation" was often one of the weighted components of a course grade he was worried about in light of that), I fail to understand your gripe.<br /><br />Let's assume that you are remembering the entire turn of events correctly, and that Moonface, indeed, stated a point toward the end of class for the sole purpose of countering your opinion (my apologies to Moonface if you're reading this - we're speaking hypothetically). In your eyes, you are perfectly justified in sharing your opinion, whether or not it happens to coincide with that of other group members or of the professor. What makes anyone else less justified in offering a contrary opinion? That the contrary opinion is offered by the professor (if you are correct in recalling that) does not necessarily make it correct, and the onus still remains with the individual students to decide which view, in their opinion, is correct.<br /><br />As I said, this all assumes that you have correctly "figured out" Moonface and his intentions which, I feel, you definitely have not. Though we all have our druthers and are prone to interact differently with different people and in different situations, I cannot reconcile the picture you're painting of this person with the person who spent much of the remainder of the program questioning (and, perhaps amongst other people, criticizing) what was being pitched at us by various instructors and professors. I think the fact that he went along with the assignments and discussions as "business as usual", at least if he's anything like the rest of the class, was a means to an end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com